Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Matti nl
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Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Matti nl » lun. janv. 11, 2021 7:44 pm

Dear GONG and forum members

I am living in the Netherlands and since two years addicted to sup surfing. I used to sup on flat water since 2013 and started wave surfing and wave supping in 2018, nowadays I sup surf 8 out of 10 times (and occasionally I surf traditionally). I have also supped at Ile de Re and saint Giles Croix de Vie in waves from about 1,50/170 m (with the all wave). I am 46 years old, 1.75m and 80kg, very sportive and fit (due to CrossFit) and I am trying to SUP surf almost every week all year round (maybe besides February and March, North Sea and outer temperature bit too cold, but last Saturday (9 January) and New Years day I was in the water, so as long as it goes I will go. Mostly in the weekend due to work, but I also ike to go early in the morning before work when the sun is up early, so between April and September I usually SUP 2 times a week. My paddle technique is quite ok and I can ride down the line and do bottom turns BS and FS. Cuttbacks etc. is not within my routine (yet) but I am hoping to find a board to catch more waves, provide more stability in the messy waves and also is more maneuverable.

Circumstances here in the Netherlands vary. in 70% of the times the sea is wild and messy, waves follow each other shortly and can be high but not very large. Passing the first beach break can be hard because once you have passed the first wave the next one arrives fas, if you fall in that phase t can be quite a struggle. Once after the break the sea tends to be nervous (not as clear cut as in France where waves are clearly seen and where there is time and glassy water between the waves). However....with Northern storms and offshore wind it can be really glassy and nice, especially if you know which spot to go, with enough power and height. That is not so common as in France but it happens 2 a 3 out of 10 sorties.

I am happy with my current quiver, but I feel like I lack something. The mana is really comfortable and will take any wave. However it is big and clumsy, and once on the wave not so manouvrable. Next to this it tends to nosedive very easy, not so nice when on a big wave, so you really have to step back fast and stay low. Riding on the rail is not super easy with the mana and passing the first breaks sometimes challenging. The Fanatic is really nice on the wave, maneuverable and super on the rail. However It feels less stable in the nervous water, even less stable than a 130 liter nah swell get up 8'10 I tried sometimes while it is 145 liter. Next to this it doesn't catch green waves (further out on second or third sandbanks) as easy as the mana. However, again, once on the wave it is a delight. The Naish Raptor is very complicated, I have no problem with stability or stance, but the rowing effect is enormous, I have difficulties gaining speed without turning 45 degrees immediately, despite rowing in J's, so I will sell this one. However, once on the wave it is like a skateboard. Catching them however is a different story.

I am hoping GONG has the right board for me. I am doubting between a Karmen 8'9, a Mob 8,4 or an NFA 9,0 or 9'0 XL. Most important is the stability in a messy sea, easy of take off, good passage through the barrier and some maneuverability (not the most important however).

Hope you can give some advice! Thanks Matt

Fanatic all wave HRS 8'9
Naish Mana 9'5
Naish Raptor Barebones 7'0 V128
enough inflatables....

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hecub
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par hecub » lun. janv. 11, 2021 10:04 pm

The best board I tried for windy days were the NFA XL. They both are incredibly stable and easy.

The 10 XL requires a little less power from the waves.

Once the waves get a little more powerful (I'd say a little bigger than knee high) the 9 XL starts to really shine, because it become very lively, the contrast between its stability and its agility is really impressive.

I liked the Mob but more in nice conditions. In choppy conditions it's less stable, harder to catch the waves and not so fast to position yourself on the wave. And it is more impacted by the chop while surfing.

The Karmen is the one I know less, my impressions were that the board paddles really fast and cuts through the chop but it's also the less stable of the 3. I don't have the paddling skills required to enjoy it in choppy conditions.
Surf: Lethal foil 4'6
Wing: Droïd 6-5 - Neutra 4, Cruzader Diamond 6'0
Foil: Sirus XXL - XL - L, Curve H XL - L - M
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MagW
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par MagW » mer. janv. 13, 2021 6:56 pm

Hi Matt, living in Sweden I know all about choppy and messy waves. :D :D :D
The NFA series are really good in messy conditions and for taking of far outside and getting long rides. The 9' is for sure easier to handle and more compact than the 10, where you have to be more active with your feet to turn and maneuver. The more active you are on a longboard the better it performs, you can ride the nose etc. The 10' is also nice if its not to choppy, windy and big. If you want a snappier board you get the NFA Pro version, it turns and accelerates a bit faster than the FSX2. The XS 9' is to small for you. The NFA are stable and can handle bigger waves to, just remember to turn directly to avoid catching the nose during take off. If you really want stability go XL, however the standard 9' is more stable than your Fanatic.

If you want more turns (and no noserides) and easier take offs in the steep you may look at the Karmen. This board is based on two older shapes, one called Cloud. The Cloud was also really good for my conditions, and there are many happy customers here with those. The Karmen is a bit trickier to balance, compared to the Clouds but easier handle in bigger, steeper and faster waves which it surfs really well. And the biggest Karmen sizes are "easier" with more margin to balance, keeping the speed in flat sections etc.

Forget the Mob if you don't like the rowing effect and surf in windy conditions. With winds and chop it is another world with shortboards, without wind they are really easy.

I have always had one bigger and one smaller longboard in my quiver, complemented with shortboards which I only use when it is glassier conditions or e.g in France. Depending on the wind, wind direction, chop, currents etc of the day I make my choice to surf with my big och bigger longboard. The other day I SUP surfed in 15-18m/s, snow and 1 degree Celsius!
/Magnus
22: NFA9'xs
21: NeverStick 9'8
20: Zero 8'5
19: 7'8 Karmen Pro
13: Sherpa BR 12'6
Carbon Racing S and Pro 7"
23: Mint 5’, HM85, CurveH-XL, H-L, FluidH45
23: Droid UP 4,5 & 5,5

Matti nl
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Matti nl » sam. janv. 16, 2021 11:27 am

Ha Magnus and Heca, thanks a lot for your replies! This really helps a lot, I Will not go for a MOB, leave the choice between nfa 9,0/nfa pro 9,0. I hope the less volume Will not feel much less Stable than the allwave, but i see both in the description on the site and in Marcus’ comment that shape also matters and that I should be fine.

If anyone van precise the differences between the nfa and the pro that would be Nice, again i want to catch waves early/ green, have speed and manouvrability and functionality both in mushy/windy/choppy oceaan hete in Holland as well as glass and more height and power on holidays in vendee or les landes or sometimes even here:-)

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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par hecub » sam. janv. 16, 2021 11:44 am

I believe the shape is the same only the construction is different. Fsp Pro is little bit lighter and is supposed to add a better dynamic but I can't attest how much, I never tried one.
Surf: Lethal foil 4'6
Wing: Droïd 6-5 - Neutra 4, Cruzader Diamond 6'0
Foil: Sirus XXL - XL - L, Curve H XL - L - M
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coolas
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par coolas » sam. janv. 16, 2021 11:51 am

Basically lighter is always better, except in chop where a bit of weight makes the board easier to control.

If you favor manoeuvers and/or agressive surfing, go with the Pro.

If you want a bit more dampening of the chop at the expense of a bit of liveliness, go with the fsp.
2019: 7'3" Fatal 105L, Alley 7'8" 105L & 8'1" 120L, Zero 9'0" 115L
2022: Mob 7'6" cool 120L, Alleys custom 7'10" 112L & 8'1" 114L
2023: Karmen custom 7'11" 118L
Surf: 9'1" XTR proto glider

Matti nl
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Matti nl » mer. janv. 20, 2021 11:31 am

Thanx for all the advices! I am still hestitating between nfa 9’0 and 9’0 xl. Ishtar are the differences in maniability and control and ease of passing the break? I am comfortable om my allwave 8’9,140l, but it is not the easiest in wild/windy/choppy conditions. Therefore i need some reassurance that the nfa 9’0 120l is about as stable as the allwave despite of power volume due to its shape.

Karmen 8’9 is also still a possibility, but I am afraid it is somewhat similar to the allwave and won’t be able to take the green waves and waves as early as possible.

Some final advice would be really helpfull. Greets Matti

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MagW
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par MagW » jeu. janv. 21, 2021 12:27 pm

If stability is priority then the XL is your choice. To play it safe.
But a bigger, wider board will be a bit harder to get out through the waves and whitewater. The whitewater has more board-surface to push. So XL is easier on the outside but a bit harder going out.

I usually sit down low on my knees the first smaller waves or when it's really windy. That way I don't fall off the in or close to the shore break/closeout waves. And the wind does not stop me as much.

The stability is dependent on the surface area, shape and volume. The wide nose on the NFA makes it really stable, the OFO measurements are in the board specs. You can compare the OFO width (One Foot Off the tail and nose) to your Allwave to see which is wider in the nose and tail? A pointy nose and tail is much less stable.

Less volume can get a board more stable in chop, since it sits lower in the water, but you have to move your feet cautiously on a smaller board. So 120 can be more stable than 140 of you don't move around to much. And balance (train) a lot in chop is the key to be good in chop.
/Magnus
22: NFA9'xs
21: NeverStick 9'8
20: Zero 8'5
19: 7'8 Karmen Pro
13: Sherpa BR 12'6
Carbon Racing S and Pro 7"
23: Mint 5’, HM85, CurveH-XL, H-L, FluidH45
23: Droid UP 4,5 & 5,5

Matti nl
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Matti nl » mer. janv. 27, 2021 9:59 pm

Thanx a lot Magnus. I will go for the 9'0. Only little problem now is that after reading several posts I am still doubting between NFA 9'0, NFA pro 9'0 or even a zero 9'0. I am curious what the differences are between nfs and the nfs pro, and between nfs pro and the zero. could someone elaborate on this?

Again I am looking for a stable board in the chop/wind conditions, to take waves early, and to make some manoeuvres on them, nose riding is no priority at all, and to make more progress than on my all wave 8'9. 1,75, 78-80kg, sportive and fit, starting to get at intermediate level. Next to the Dutch conditions the board will also have to do well in Vendee, and the more powerfull/higher waves at Gironde and les landes, where I will stay 3/4 weeks a year.

the nfa pro is still available, zero and regular nfs is sold out all the time....budget is not a problem. greets

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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par coolas » jeu. janv. 28, 2021 8:10 am

If budget is not a problem, and you do not favor nose riding, go with the pro. The weight gain and nervosity will help in manoeuvers other than noseriding.

As you are still intermediate, and will often use it in chop, the NFA will be better, as more forgiving. The zero will work better with more technique, the flatter rocker will need more precise body placement, and the more pulled-in tail can handle more power but may sink and cut the speed mroe easily in everyday waves.
2019: 7'3" Fatal 105L, Alley 7'8" 105L & 8'1" 120L, Zero 9'0" 115L
2022: Mob 7'6" cool 120L, Alleys custom 7'10" 112L & 8'1" 114L
2023: Karmen custom 7'11" 118L
Surf: 9'1" XTR proto glider

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MagW
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par MagW » jeu. janv. 28, 2021 10:33 pm

The Zero is definitely harder to balance in chop campared to the NFA.
/Magnus
22: NFA9'xs
21: NeverStick 9'8
20: Zero 8'5
19: 7'8 Karmen Pro
13: Sherpa BR 12'6
Carbon Racing S and Pro 7"
23: Mint 5’, HM85, CurveH-XL, H-L, FluidH45
23: Droid UP 4,5 & 5,5

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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Matti nl » mer. mars 03, 2021 12:11 am

I received my nfa 9’0 last thursday. Well packed, no bumps or damage. I was impressed by its shape, weight and thin rails and tail. It appears smaller than it is. Took it in the des saturday, nice clean waves (0,7-1,2 m), no wind and it was a marvel! I had absolutely no problem with stability, the 120 liters felt indeed more stable than my old allwave 8’9 of 140l! Take off early and easy, impressed hoe smooth it handles drops when a wave was steeper, could make turns easily, on the tail but also very easy on the rails, just by moving feet and body weight, which i hadn’t done before on the allwave. Passing the chop was very easy. And I even managed a couple of first noserides. I am hooked and very happy, can’t wait taking her in bigger waves, confident it Will go fine, and thanx a lot to everyone who took the effort of responding in the forum to my questions and helping me to convince me of buying the nfa! My wife took her sunday and she wants one as well :-)
Greets matt

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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par Fred GONG » mer. mars 03, 2021 10:54 am

Thank you Matti nl for your feed back 8) 8) 8)
GONG team / Modérateur / May the foil be with you !

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MagW
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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par MagW » mer. mars 03, 2021 12:21 pm

Happy to hear, however I am not surprised that you like it! 8) 8) :wink: :wink:
Longboards is a must for messy seas as a foundation in your quiver!
/Magnus
22: NFA9'xs
21: NeverStick 9'8
20: Zero 8'5
19: 7'8 Karmen Pro
13: Sherpa BR 12'6
Carbon Racing S and Pro 7"
23: Mint 5’, HM85, CurveH-XL, H-L, FluidH45
23: Droid UP 4,5 & 5,5

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Re: Karmen or NFA or MOB? best in clapot/messy sea

Message par bobijones64SUP » mar. déc. 07, 2021 3:57 pm

Thanks for your report!
so did you go for the FSP or the PRO version?
I have more or less the same characteristics (1m78 77 kg) and also dreaming of a NFA 9'
and big fan of the new PRO design!
thanks in advance for your answer
Bamby Cloud 666 8'6 130 L
Nano Caribou 7'7 125 L
NFA 9' FSP2X 120 L
1m78 77kg

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